Agent J may be biting his own fingers. Anxiety? Something else?

[SqueakingJellybean]

Agent J and Clint have been getting more hormonal and pushy with each other. There hasn't been more damage done than the occasional nip of Clint's tail, but it's always Clint's tail. J is becoming quite a bully. It used to be 50/50, but J is much bigger and more aggressive than his brother.

Yesterday it got so bad that we separated them for a while, and are setting up a separate cage until we can pick up the Critter Nation next month. We put them back in together last night and they were fine, grooming and cuddling. This morning, though, they got into it badly enough that, near as I could tell, Clint bit J's finger. It's the first time either has drawn blood. They have been separated again for the moment. The Mr. and I have been trying to keep them apart; when we put them back together for a bit, Clint started pushing J over and was being very aggressive.

I washed J's hands to see why they were still leaving little blood spots hours later, but couldn't see a wound. I don't know if a nail is loose or what's going on, but he may be biting or over-grooming his hands.

Is this an anxiety thing because of being away from his brother? Could it be anxiety over a recent change in cage setup? We were trying to keep them from getting bored, so we moved their stuff around. What can I do to help reduce his anxiety and maybe keep them from beating on each other?

Our vet sees neutering as a last-ditch solution. I'd rather not separate them if I don't have to, but we can't have them hurting each other or keeping each other from food and water. They pine while they're apart, but they're little jerks when they're together.

 

[Joanne]

It really sounds like they both need a neuter. If your vet does not feel comfortable doing a neuter, perhaps there is another vet that you could take them to. Are you close enough to TO to see Dr. Munn? (Lilspaz's vet)

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

We're in Kitchener. Transportation is not always reliable or available. I'll call our vet at Lincoln Village Animal Hospital tomorrow and explain the situation; perhaps if she knows that there's anxiety involved she'll be more willing to neuter them.

Do you think the larger space of a Critter Nation (the double) would be helpful? Just wondering if we should try that first or opt for the neuter straight away. The boys will be a year old at the end-ish of October, near as we can figure.

 

[jorats]

I would tell your vet that this is last ditch effort now.
Barbering and over grooming is usually a sign of stress and the separation can cause that. How old are the boys now? Is their cage very small?

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

I got a closer look at his hands now that he's stopped licking, and he's not bleeding any more. He may just have been worrying at the injury or torn a nail (not to the point of losing it) rather than having been bitten, as I can't see any bitemark.

The cage is a Super Pet My First Home. It's not small, but it's not as large as we'd like, which is why we're investing in the CN either this month or next month, probably end of this month. Their current cage was fine when we got them (they were about 5-7 months) but they'll be a year old at the end of October and Agent J is becoming quite the strapping lad.

Do you think the increased space would be enough? If we absolutely need to step up the purchase of the cage, we can do it. We'd rather do that than subject them to surgery. If the extra space doesn't work, we'll opt for neutering at that point.

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

Good news-- they made it through the night together with no problems. J's hands are fine now. We'll be ordering the CN shortly.

 

[jorats]

They are 10 months old and just now starting to tussle? I wouldn't think it's aggression then. I did a quick google of the superpet my first home and there seems like a lot of them. What are the dimensions?
It could very well be that they simply don't have enough room for two very adult rats.

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

Oh they're not just starting now-- this was just the first time blood was drawn. Clint is a drama queen and squeaks like he's being skinned at the slightest provocation ("I don't wanna go back in! Eeeeep!" "He took my lab block! I shall perish of the flensing! Eeeeeeeeeeep!") so sometimes it's hard to tell how serious the squabbles are, but blood being drawn, whether on purpose or by accident, requires some manner of change. Squeaking is one thing, leaking is another.

The Superpet unit they're currently in is 29" x 27" x 18". If all goes as planned, we're picking up the CN this weekend. Today and tomorrow will be full of rearranging furniture and making more hammocks. I will post pictures.

 

[jorats]

I would think those dimensions are suitable for two males. A change in cage might be all that they need to settle them down. I would feed them their own separate bowl and on different levels. And start using a time out cage. A very small cage with nothing in it. no food, no water, nothing. Each time the bully gets out of hand, take him out and put him in the time out cage for no longer than 10 minutes. Do this each time and it might be all that he needs to understand that his behaviour is not acceptable.

 

[Sheldon]

You will definitely love the new cage. It allows such easy access to everything and is s breeze to clean. Like Jorats said, maybe the shock of a new cage will put them right.

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

@jorats-- We've used a time-out cage a couple of times over the past few days. It has stuff in it because we weren't sure how long we'd have to separate them, but it seems to have calmed them down a little. They've each had some time in it; that was part of what precipitated Agent J's stress reaction and led to the original post. They spent most of today snuggled up together in the top level of their hammock, then chased each other around the bed like lunatics during out-time. Nevertheless, we pick up the CN on Saturday. Flower Town Chinchillas also carries space pods; we've ordered another so there will be one in each section. Tomorrow will mostly be filled with sewing hammocks. Very excited!

@Sheldon-- I'm looking forward to the easy-to-clean part. The Super Pet cage is a decent size, but it's unwieldy and a pain to wash. The Dollar Store has been helpful in terms of providing fleece and climbing ropes (ostensibly they're dog toys, but our boys ignore those nasty rumours).

 

[jorats]

Sounds like things are looking up.

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

Pics of the CN can be seen in my most recent post here: http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=450799#post450799

The boys still aren't sure why we're not putting them back in their previous house. J is being a little pushy and Clint is being paranoid, as usual; hopefully they'll settle soon once they've finished a fresh set of territorial posturing.

 

[jorats]

Heading on over to the link.