Advice for Rat with Pneumonia and Fluid in Lungs

[JenD]

Well, I think I'm going to be on here quite a bit now that our four boys are aging. I'm back now with Chaulky who is 23 months and has a history of URI since he was a baby (on and off meds for the noises he'd make). I took him in to see the vet today b/c he went into respiratory distress last night - jumped out of the cage and into my arms (panic, anxious, etc). It looked like he was trying to bite the cage wires just to get out. His breathing has been very labored with his head bobbing up and down and the various wheezing/chirping/sounds that they make. I got out the old antibiotics he was on as a baby and started him on them and I swear they seemed to help a bit. Today, the Vet said he has pneumonia and fluid in his lungs. He's on a higher dose of baytril now. She said to keep him warm, use a humidifier, keep him calm and something about pressing him gently to help express the fluid in his lungs. I am not quite sure how to do that - does anyone know?

Anything else you can advise doing to help him with this? We had eventually taken him off the antibiotics as a baby b/c he kept making sounds w/o the sneezing and things and she didn't want him to become immune. So he's always made various noises that I think are related to to respiratory issues.

Last night, he was in such distress that I thought for sure we'd have to euth today, by how labored his breathing was, but this morning he ate a half slice of a banana and groomed, bruxed and I even got some eye boggling when he was in my lap - all the while he still has labored breathing and his head bobbs up and down b/c of it. He is usually more aloof, but he constantly wants to be held as of the episode last night. Any advice would be appreciated as again, this is my first pneumonia case

This is such a great group of experts here. You are very much appreciated!
Jen

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

I have no idea about the pressing to expel fluid but I would recommend trying lasix to help eliminate the fluid.

 

[JenD]

Do I get that from the vet or is it OTC?

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

You would have to ask your vet for it.

 

[jorats]

Unfortunately his condition would need vet prescribed meds like Baytril, I would even try prednisone at this point to help him out. Lasix has work on some too.
It's hard when they've reached the point of panicking.

 

[smilez_n_hugs]

She already has him on baytril :thumbup:

 

[JenD]

Yes, the vet gave us baytril (but nothing else) and said to see if it helps. She isn't in tomorrow, but will be on Sunday. Jo, I hate to ask this, but are his chances good or is it pretty much over once they reach this stage? While sometimes he is sitting very still and breathing is very labored, he then seems to suddenly get claustrophobic and is moving and jumping quickly now. She said to keep him calm, but he does seem to sometimes just get a burst of panic as he tries to find a better place to get the oxygen he needs

I should probably ask now to be prepared, but how do you know when it's time to euth? I do not want him to suffer more than he has to, but I am still new to all of this so I'm not quite sure if I will know when the time is right. Thoughts on that?

 

[Roo]

If he was already on Baytril, I would see if you can get something added to it - especially if he's showing new symptoms. That's all the advice I really have.

The way my vet explained it to me, there's always hope - if he's still taking his meds and you see any improvement keep trying - but it's hard to overcome this and it's not a huge chance there will be success.

Good luck :heart:

I hate pneumonia so much. :cry4:

 

[JenD]

Thank you, Roo. I need to know so I can prepare myself. He hadn't been on anything until last night so the baytril is new and we'll see how it goes. I felt like the vet was trying to LMK quietly (my daughters were with me) that this is going to be hard to fight, but we have to try, right! I feel like he's much too young, though. I thought most live 2-4 years with more like 3 being the average. He will turn 2 years old next month...seems young to me

Hugs to you, Roo and thank you to everyone else who chimed in. I'm still open for more thoughts or suggestions with all of this...waaaaaahhhhh...

 

[SQ]

I would try baytril (10mg/Ib twice a day orally) + clavamox (10mg/Ib twice a day), baytril + doxy (2.5-5 mg/Ib twice a day), or baytril + zithro (10-15 mg/Ib wice a day)
also lasix (1-2 mg/Ib twice a day to start) as needed to get the fluid out of his lungs, possibly pred (0.25 - 1 mg/Ib once or twice a day) or dex (1 mg/Ib once a day)
also a bronchrdialator - injection or asthma inhaler

In addition to the above, you can also try enalapril (0.25 mg/Ib, twice a day).
If the underlying problem is a heart condition, this will help and other heart meds are added.

Edit: all dosage info. taken from the Rat Health Care Book

If your rattie is gasping and panicing and nothing helps, it is likely time to have your rattie put to sleep
(See http://www.jorats.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... how+to+pts )
or else in an oxygen tank to buy time for the antibiotics to work.

I hope the antibiotics work fast
:hugs:

 

[JenD]

Thank you, Pea-Rat for the great dosage advice. I'm going to print it out if we have to go back next time. The GREAT news is that Chaulky has responded to the antibiotics (just baytril thus far) and he is doing sooooooo much better. I haven't heard noises from him at all yesterday and no more panic attacks - his breathing appears less labored and he's so much happier! :joy:

I have the house at a warmer temp and am keeping it set on that temp and I syringe fed him water to make sure he was staying hydrated. He has been loving the TLC and is taking the meds without too much resistance. I really feel that he *knows* we are trying to help him. So thus far, we have all four of our boys still - yeah!

Again, though, thank you so much for all of your advice and just having someone on the other end of the comp as a support really helps more than you know! Kisses to all of you from Chaulky and Rudy, both who feel so much better now

 

[Joanne]

Jen, so glad to hear that your boy has responded to antibiotics. One of my girls Lily has been on Baytril and Doxycycline for a while, and then we added Enalapril (heart med). She started breathing really heavily last fall (Nov) and I thought it was the end, but we decide to try her on some Prednolisone, and she is still with us! So sometimes there are more meds to try even when you think the end is near. Good luck!

 

[smmmiley]

I need to ask Dr. Liston for some Prednisone for Monkey to try. She's got such fight in her, but is definitely struggling and not sure the Baytril is helping very much at this point.

How is Chaulky doing these days?

 

[SQ]

Often baytriol by itself is not enough.
You might try one of several combinations of meds.

 

[yamugny]

How long does it take for pneumonia to get started and become lethal? An experienced nurse does a through check on a patient with a stethoscope and says everything is just ok, but patient dies after 2 weeks from pneumonia. Did she miss something or can pneumonia start and get lethal in the period of time. Shortness of breath was the primary reason for the check.
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[jorats]

How long does it take for pneumonia to get started and become lethal? An experienced nurse does a through check on a patient with a stethoscope and says everything is just ok, but patient dies after 2 weeks from pneumonia. Did she miss something or can pneumonia start and get lethal in the period of time. Shortness of breath was the primary reason for the check.

It's been my experience that yes... it can start and kill fast or drag on for a long time or become better.

 

[Joanne]

How long does it take for pneumonia to get started and become lethal? An experienced nurse does a through check on a patient with a stethoscope and says everything is just ok, but patient dies after 2 weeks from pneumonia. Did she miss something or can pneumonia start and get lethal in the period of time. Shortness of breath was the primary reason for the check.

Many times an x-ray is used to confirm the diagnosis of pneumonia. I know someone who went to a walk in clinic complaining of a cough. The MD told them they were just being foolish and that the cough was caused by smoking. She left and went to the ER and got an x-ray, and sure enough she had pneumonia.
It can be viral or bacterial. If it's viral, your body has to do the work of getting rid of it and antibiotics will only work on the secondary bacterial infections.
I also agree it can be mild and lingering and perhaps never diagnosed, or severe and acute, quickly incapacitating the patient.
I don't know about your country, but here I don't think a nurse is allowed to order an x-ray, so even if she suspected pneumonia, the doctor would be the one who had to order it.