Adult jerk rat savages and bites baby rat

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lil

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Feb 24, 2014
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I'm having some serious rat problems here !

Please let me explain a little bit of my rat history.

The first rats I got were 2 baby sister, Nymeria and Shinobi.
The same day I also rescued a loving gentle adult rat that had lived by itself its whole life - her name was Snuggle rat.

She used to let the babies ride her all day and snuggled up to them and was generally super lovely.

Snuggle rat sadly died of old age when the babies were about 4-5 months old
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We found 13 wild rats in our garden bed and took them home to fatten them up before taking them to a park.

Nymeria slept on them at night, and Shinobi mothered them and watched over them and calmed them down when they were scared and was very attached to them.

After we took them away (they were waaaay too crazy to keep so many!) Shinobi was depressed for weeks.
She would just sit in the fetal position in the cage, waiting for them to come back. She was never the same again.
I think their wildness was like the wildness in Shinobi - so they bonded so much.

Nymeria then took to jumping out the window and running under the house for days... =\
The window is really high, so we didn't think she would jump...

Shinobi would be depressed while Nymeria was gone.. when she came back (she always comes back... She is like a teenage girl going out for benders) Shinobi would watch over her and guard her in her box while she is recovering.
She is a loyal, and faithful rat - greater than so many people I know.


After the wild ratties left, we thought if we got a new rattie friend it would make them feel a little better.

So we rescued Vesu from some fat girls who kept her by herself..

She was much bigger and fatter than our girls and fought a lot with them.

Vesu is also a jerk rat.
She has developed no social skills.

She ripped Nymerias ear almost completely off..
Now she has a floppy ear with a big tear in the middle of it.

Vesu also attacked Shinobi, she bit the end of her tail down to the bone. Shinobi got an infection, a high fever and died a slow, painful, suffering death on my partners belly.
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Since Shinobis death, Vesu has started attacking Nymeria in such a fierce and endless way, Nymeria will become weary of the onslaught, and go into a box for refuge.. Vesu will come behind the box and shove it off the 2nd level of the cage, then run down and attack Nymeria when she pokes her head out to see what happens..



I recently got a single adult Scaredy rat off a girl who wanted her to go to a better home because it was living in fear with its current mates and two beautiful baby rats.

The result has been madness and carnage.

Vesu is literally trying to kill them. In a psychotic twisted way.
The babies have a box that only they can enter, Vesu sits on top the box and waits for them to poke their heads out and then mauls and bites their little faces and tries to claw their eyes out.

Nymeria has learnt this jerk behaviour, if the baby rats walk past her she bites the back of their necks, flails them from side to side then flings them against walls - off platforms then chases them and bites their tails.

I understand pecking order needs to be established.
But this shouldn't happen with babies?

Biting is not ok or normal, but not sure what to do.

They have been fighting non-stop - but it is brutal and nightmarish- not the normal wrestling.

Vesu started biting us when we first got her, and we taught her very quickly not to - so she is capable of learning.

I am thinking of taking the babies somewhere else... but now that they have been exposed to this behaviour I am worried they will spread it, like some horrible disease !!


Please help !!
 
Have you done introductions in neutral territory? Or have they been put together immediately? Vesu should have been removed as soon as she'd shown that kind of aggression.
 
Rats need to be gradually introduced to one another, they can not just be put in together.
There are established gradual intro steps to follow.

Rats also require vet care and meds from good vets with successful experience in treating rats.
There is a humane way for a vet to put suffering rats to sleep so that they do not suffer unnecessarily - but most vets are not aware how to do it humanely.

It is very dangerous for a rat to jump out a window and stay under the house .... I can not imagine how this could be allowed to happen more then once. I assume that they are in a room without a good screen on the window? If so, this is also very dangerous.

Wild rats should only be let go in the same area as where they were found. Rats are very territorial and if put into a different area they will be in someone else's territory and likely killed.

It sounds like Vesu needs to be in a cage by herself now.
She may be able to live with other rats after gradual intros.

How does Nymeria get along with the babies?
How old is Nymeria?
How old are the babies?
How big is the cage?

Please separate Vesu from the other immediately.
Then you can do gradual intros over a month or two to see if they will be able to live together.
 
Your rats need to be properly introduced to each other. Vesu needs to be in her own cage for now. same with the two baby rats, they need their own cage. You need to work on slow intros. Your cage must be big enough to accommodate all these rats.
 
This is full of so much wrong it smells like a troll.

First split the babies up anyone can see that a baby being thrashed by an adult rat is a problem. Quit putting them with her if that is how she is. I wont say anything else for now because I cannot even buy this story for some reason.
 
Babies are 6 weeks old.
Nymeria is 8-9 months old - She is a grumpy old lady to the rats and quite snappy.

The cage is 2m high, and 1.5m wide, there are 4 different platforms, hammocks, tunnels, etc and many boxes with different peeky holes.

The babies have a box that has a little baby only entrance hole.

Each rat has been introduced individually to the baby rats under supervision (with snacks!)
and we talk very soothingly to them while this is happening.

They have a neutral play area - they do not get along even here.
Everything in the cage was fresh and new when babies entered.

When the big rats fight with the babies now we intervene and let them know that it's not ok.

I have sectioned off the cage until I can get another one.

Not sure if I should take Vesu to another house?
But surely she will continue being a jerk rat there..
Unless she is not bigger and more dominant..?


As of Nymeria and her under house adventures.

There are no screens on the windows, only one of them is remotely accessible.
The first time she jumped out the window was completely unexpected and crazy.
Her and Shinobi often sat on the windowsill but never looked like they were going to jump - just enjoying fresh air.

We spent night and day trying to get her to come out, and slept with the door open, and had boxes with snacks everywhere as a safe place.
hehe.. if you play the flute she comes out :)

After that the window she had access too was opened only a crack - but then she started doing insane climbing and contorting to unexpected places and escaped this way.

We take every measure to stop her..
Though she is sometimes obsessed... she just runs from door to door sniffing underneath, and climbing up places and staring longingly out the window... =\



When Shinobi was sick we took her to the vet, but I think that just made her suffer more, she injected her, missed the vein and had to do it many times, and it did not help her in the end, it was the most horrible experience.

She might have been better just staying home where she was comfortable.


Behind our buisness where the wild rats were found - we have a small courtyard with a garden bed and many beautiful fruit trees, on one side we have a tattoo store owned by a bi-polar drug crazed alcoholic, and the other side is a small, damp abandoned garage.

The tattoo guy encouraged the garden and gave us plants and help with it, then went and complained to council, real estate, lawyers, behind our back etc because it might harbor rats etc.

While this is happening we found all the baby rats which came from the old building next door (which used to be his tattoo store) and from underneath the building.

So please understand I couldn't leave them there.

The tattoo man puts out huge boxes of rat poison and we try to catch as many of them before they all slowly bleed to death from internal hemmoraging caused by the poison.

We find them dead outside all the time and figured taking them to a park was better than this.
 
It they are not getting on along on a neutral play area, then they should not be living together. Are these wild baby rats ? Baby rats should not be introduced to an adult until they are at least 10 weeks old. Because they cannot defend themselves and the other rats can kill them. You can intervene all day but that is not going to show her it isnt allowed. She seems them as intruders in her cage and unless you change that you wont get the fighting to stop. Some girls are hard to introduce so they may never live with her.

If these babies are wild rats, then they should not be living with a domesticate pet rat. They are not the same and it can cause fights. Get them in their own cage if you chose to keep them but I would let the get older and find a safe place to release them they do not get domesticated like the pets do.
 
Vesu is NOT being a "jerk".
She is being a normal rat whose home has been invaded by strangers.
Gradual intros will need to occur and I can give you detailed info on steps etc, but right now she needs to be in a cage by herself where she can not reach any other rats through the cage bars.

The babies are much to young to put in with an unfamiliar rat.
When they are 10 weeks old, then you can start gradual intro steps.
For now, they need to be in a cage by themselves, where they can get used to the sound and the smell of other the rats.
They need to be far enough away from other rats so that none can touch or grab one another through the bars.

So, I guess your other adult, Nymeria, will need to be in a cage by herself for now until gradual intros are completed.
No wonder she is "grumpy"! She has lost her friends and now her home has been invaded by strangers, one of whom hurts her and seriously injured someone she loves.

Get a screen on the window in the room where the rats are! Immediately!
If a rat can get out, then a predator - (mammal, bird, etc) can get in and kill or injure them!
I understand that you thought it was safe and went to great lengths to make sure she was ok, but it is very important to "rat proof" all spaces they have access to ... if a rat can get its head through a hole, it can get its body through as well ..... and predators are a huge danger :(

I realize that you have been doing your best, but the info you have is incorrect.
You need to separate the rats immediately and start over again after they have a chance to relax and feel safe in cages were no one is invading their space or trying to harm them.

I hope you can find a new vet that knows something about treating rats. What you described is absolutely horrible, and yes, it sounds like Shinobi suffered greatly.
I have no idea what she was injected with, but it is impossible to inject something into the veins of a rat as their veins are much too small.

I hope you will check out the various areas of this forum as there is a lot of good info and ideas - please ignore the articles .... the person writing the articles (Gina Saunders) is providing incorrect information.

It would be great if you could post some pics ... we love pics :)
 
I had a small bub and my one male killed her while I tried intro's, it happens so fast so you are not able to help fast enough. He went for her throat. It can become very dangerous for a small bub so I now wait until the bub is older for intros.
 
Oh, you misunderstand hopefloats.

The baby wild rats were released many months ago.
We only had them for 2 days and they got on beautifully with Nymeria and Shinobi.


Thanks for your help SQ !

The cage now is divided and separated with cardboard so they can smell and hear each other but can't fight or claw.

I let a big rat and the babies play on my lap or a small area and they get on ok here, this is only for a small amount of time while they get used to each other.

I will keep the areas separate until babies are bigger and things are more chilled out.

The play area is Nymeria proof now and she can't escape out the windows anymore.

Shinobi was injected with fluid under her skin, and with an antibiotic...they were not missing vein... they we just messing it up.

I will post some photos in the next few days
:)
 
Cardboard is not good enough.
Rats can easily chew through cardboard.
You need separate cages where the can not reach one another.
If necessary, make a bin cage for the babies .... later you can use it as a carrier.
See

Make sure the window is kept closed at all times or it has a sturdy screen over it. Otherwise predators may get in ... I know of a rat that was killed by a predator that got in someones window.

As for your vet, either we are not getting all the info., or you need to find a new vat experienced in treating rats, asap.
A good vet is extremely important as rats become ill and die quickly.
Were you given oral antibiotics and pain meds to give her?
What antibiotics? For how long?
 
If your landlord (or whoever the 'tattoo man' is) is placing rat poison outside your home, you don't want your rats getting outside around that either. Perhaps discourage him from using poisons (awful for the wild rats and any other animal out there, from squirrels to cats or dogs that can get into it). Cleaning up the outside area for any trash/disposed food, etc. will usually take care of the attraction for them in the first place.
 

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