A life on Pine....

[ema-leigh]

Hello Rat Shack!

Im posting hoping to steal some of your rescue expertise... since no doubt some of you may of experienced this before.

I've just had two rescues surrendered to me, both approx 16m males. They have spent their entire life on pine (with the occasional bag of carefresh mixed in), their cages were kept dirty, and they were fed a terrible diet of alfalfa and sunflower seeds.

One of the boys is a bit sneezy, but his lungs sound clear and hes in otherwise fair health. The previous owners said he has always been like this :emb: I am just wondering what the effects of being kept on the pine so long would be, and if theres anyway I could help him. Obviously hes not on the pine anymore (its been donated to a rabbit rescue) and I use newspaper and carefresh or yn. Just wondering when I can expect the sneezes to clear up if thats what it is?

Thanks guys!

 

[xxchelle]

Rabbits shouldn't be on pine either...

We just did a large rescue of lots of rats that were kept in AWFUL conditions all on pine. Only a couple have respiratory infections, nothing severe. The others sound okay, but then again I have the younger ones here who haven't been exposed to it for as long.

 

[lilspaz68]

It could shorten their life after that much exposure. The kidneys filter out the toxins from the pine/cedar as long as it can, but eventually the organs age or are weakened and the filtering is not as good...then renal failure begins. Their kidneys aren't flushing out the toxins as well, so the rat goes into a more direct manual mode and starts to drink more water to flush the poisons out. It will worsen over time and then the organs will just give out.

Can you watch their drinking habits for the next while, especially once it stabilizes to something more normal for them? The RTR rescues need their bowls filled twice a day right now.

 

[xxchelle]

I think the RTR boys are worse than the girls, the girls still have the same bottle from last night. Heh. But again, that could be due to age... the girls are a lot younger, meaning less exposure time to the pine.

 

[ema-leigh]

(The pine shavings went to the Warren Peace Bunny Sanctuary, I assumed rabbits but they also have guineas, degus, ferrets, hedgehogs and other small animals. I'll email Annie and make sure she checks its safe for the animals first. She did say she was freezing it for 72 hours, so the animals shouldnt be on it yet.. Thanks for the heads up!)

I just read that thread, and saw the pics. You guys did an awesome job saving so many little lives!

I have been monitering their water intake, between the two of them they have drank approx 80ml a day... but I have only had them for 2 days now. (Also their veg is rinsed before given to them and I often find a little pool of water in the bottle of their dishes, so they could be getting additional water here.)The previous owner was putting Bi-odur in their drinking water (and way more than what it said on the bottle) so I just cut that out completly as I had no idea what it was. Is there anything I can do for them? Any tests or even like a steroid shot or anything that might make them feel better?

Thank you for the quick response guys! Give my love to all the rescues!

 

[ema-leigh]

 

[jorats]

The fact that they are now off of it and getting some clean air now should do them good. It can be hit or miss with pine, it's like smoking, to some it causes cancer while others don't.
But should always be on the safe side and never use the stuff.

 

[ema-leigh]

Okay thanks, I'll keep a close eye on him, but I think he is feeling better. His coat is starting to get a shine to it now and hes not as scruffy! Still got a long way to go until hes back in condition though. And they have a home lined up.. just trying to arrange transport now.

 

[lilangel]

I think almost all small rodents should not be on pine or cedar because of the fumes.

Congrats on new rescues

 

[ema-leigh]

Oh really? I used it in the past for my guinea pigs .... but that was over 5 years ago now.

Thank you, they sure are handsome boys. Heres some pics of Balthazar, this is the first time he figured out what a hammock is for... previously he didnt even have a nesting box or any soft material to sleep on.. just the dreaded pine.

 

[lilspaz68]

He looks so much happier!!

Just for everyone's information, I found this article to explain things well.

http://www.afrma.org/rminfo2.htm

 

[Rachael]

I got an old girl at 2 years old, she'd lived in a hamster cage on hamster/guinea pig food and had mould and fungus at the bottom of her bottle. Nothing at all in her tank like cage, just little bedding and literally nothing at all. She didn't have breathing troubles but not long after coming home she developed cancerous lumps. I don't know if it had anything to do with the pine. *sigh* I just would not ever use it as said.

 

[ema-leigh]

Thank you for the link. Im actually quite suprised that shavings are toxic to all small animals... but I guess it makes sence really! Does anybody think they would be bad for horses too?

And Rachel its too sad when people think rats can live in hamster cages, I can understand the pine mistake as petstores should have some sort of warning. But theres no excuse for small dirty cages.